(See Update Below) Aurora is preparing to target 20 intersections for automated red-light cameras, sending violations in the mail to the registered owner.
Commander Joe Groom of the Aurora Police Department says the cameras will take photos of the vehicle, not the driver.
Former mayoral candidate Richard Irvin had proposed mobile cameras for high-crime areas, but then-candidate Tom Weisner was more interested in red-light cameras for how it could raise revenue.
Do you support or oppose red-light cameras in Aurora? Is it a public-safety issue or revenue-generating issue?
Is it fair to ticket the owner of a vehicle if he or she was not the driver? Will local judges convict owners without evidence of being the driver?
***UPDATE 11/20/06
Nobody should be surprised the local fishwrap would endorse the idea of red-light cameras, given their track record of supporting any idea that directly or indirectly takes funds from taxpayers, but we notice their basis for their editorial has some flaws.
Fishwrap says:
"In communities where cameras have been installed, red-light violations have decreased, sometimes dramatically so."
We say some communities have found the opposite to be true and some are even discontinuing them. Accidents have INCREASED, including intersection accidents as a result of people making abrupt stops to avoid a violation, regardless of the traffic flow behind them, causing more rear-end collisions.
Reports say Washington DC found injury and fatal crashes increased 81% at red-light camera intersections. Fort Collins, CO had a 83% increase in accidents despite a 64% increase in violations being issued. Virginia has been eliminating them. Florida's Attorney General issued an opinion against them.
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reviewed data with various Georgia communities with red-light cameras and found an increase with accidents, injuries and, yes, revenue. Marietta, Georgia had a 49% increase in rear-end collissions between 2004-2005. Overall accidents in one targeted intersection (Cobb Parkway and Windy Hill Road) went from 108 to 163. However, Marietta has gained $2.7 million in revenue.
In Duluth, Georgia, accidents increased 21% between March 2004 and February 2005, compared to the same period a year earlier. But, the city made $790,000 (ca-ching) with one camera. Lilburn, Georgia had a 24% increase with rear-end collisions doubling. Injuries increased 128%. Revenue was increased at an annual rate of $404,000 with one camera.
There are other examples and studies raising both doubts about how effective red-light cameras are, but more risk to public safety. Winnipeg (Canada) showed dramatic increases in accidents. Virginia showed total overall accidents increased. In a six month period in Plano, Texas, accidents increased 50%.
In Monterey, California, a police official said:
"I gave the system its due and it showed it wasn't something that would benefit the community."
A statewide audit in Califonia showed 88% of violations issued involved split-second violations rather than the more obvious violations that would be cited by a police officer. California cities from Cupertino to Fresno to Santa Rosa to Irvine have DROPPED the red-light cameras.
There are other examples, but it is not accurate to assume red-light cameras automatically insure better safety or reduced accidents. And, given the importance of public safety, we find the fishwrap's statements irresponsible.
We also note IF the purpose is for public safety, there are other steps that may also be more effective, including increasing the yellow light time and traffic countdown counters for targeted intersections.
Fishwrap says:
"Red-light cameras have been upheld as constitutional by numerous courts..."
We say we would like to see the fishwrap explain their claim with facts and hope they weren't trying to mislead their readers by implying the United States Constitution has been been tested on this. There are various legal challenges in many states and a recent ruling in a North Carolina case said the red-light cameras violated that state's constitution. From due process to privacy concerns of vendors having vehicle information, red-light cameras may get a red-light for themselves in certain jurisdictions.
Fishwrap says:
"...ultimately it is the owners who are responsible for their vehicles. In this way, tickets for running red lights work much the same as parking tickets, which are issued to owners even though an enforcement officer doesn't know who parked the car."
We say under the fishwrap's logic, it doesn't matter who is driving the vehicle for any violation, including speeding. We suggest if you plan to speed, borrow one of the fishwrap's vehicles and see if they object any violation being mailed to them. Parking tickets are not moving violations. Whoever wrote and approved the fishwrap's editorial should get a violation for failure to obey common sense.
Fishwrap says:
"...the city says the point of the cameras isn't to make money, but to change drivers' behavior. In fact, much of the money collected will end up in the pockets of whichever company the city chooses to hire to run the program. We see any profit the city makes as an added benefit to making our streets safer to travel."
We say we aren't sure why the fishwrap believes anything a City of Aurora official says considering false statements from city officials have landed in the fishwrap's printed pages (and the fishwrap looked the other way), but any program that ends up with money in someone's private pockets should send alarm bells, given the corruption and cronyism epidemic in Illinois and Aurora.
We notice the fishwrap has no problem with the city or some crony making a profit off Aurora residents...maybe if the fishwrap really cared about the community, they would have suggested any profit offset the irresponsible tax increases they supported by Aurora Mayor Tom Weisner.
AFTER FURTHER REVIEW...MORE REVIEW NEEDED
First, remember to use extreme caution when you read the fishwrap, given their bias and allergy to facts.
Second, we see enough questions that say red-light cameras might be a great revenue generator for communities trying to indirectly tax their residents, but there's sufficient concern from communities and studies that raise concerns about the real impact on public safety.
IF the purpose is for public safety and there are clear problems with certain intersections, we first would like to see those objective evaluations, what has been tried, what is the status of yellow light timing and how the city and local hospitals are prepared for unintended consequences, such as an increase in rear-end collisions and injuries.
Those are all aside from the serious legal and ethical questions about holding an owner responsible for a driver's action and whether or not such cases would be convicted or just add to the legal system's docket of issues.
We are not in favor of anyone running red lights, but we strongly oppose taxpayer exploitation schemes and we have yet to be convinced this is not the primary purpose considering Aurora Mayor Tom Weisner's support and track record when it comes to cronyism and fleecing of Aurora's residents.
110 comments:
Big Brother needs more money. I guess all the new taxes that were instituted just weren't enough.
It's more important to raise money than it is to use those cameras in high-crime areas. $$$$$$$$$$$$
So we are down a hundred officers and yet have money for this.
We have the stats about crime in the community and its on the rise. Why is the money not being spent to rid this city of thugs, gangs, prostitutes, and other serious crimes?
So now we will spend this money along with the speed limit reduction dollars to achieve what?
Poor choice of how our dollars are spent-again.
They need to spend more money and time on how to find obvious victims of foul-play like Marilyn Bethell.
works for me...maybe the drag races on my street will stop.
9:14 No see they will not because these are ONLY for cars going through red lights and only a select few will receive them in the City. You can count on the drag racers still being there until the city hires more police.
I think the red-light cameras are basically "unfair" although I'm not saying people should fly thru intersections. I think there are some borderline situations that may technically be a violation.
Maybe instead of the city wasting money on cameras all around city hall and red-lights, they could focus resources on solving problems, not raising revenue or Weisner's paranoia.
my intersection has a two-way stop. people rarely 'stop' at all...so I don't mind this kind of thing at all.
How the the cost of installing and monitoring cameras compare with hiring a policeperson to physically be on site? We could use more people and less machines.
Look what happened in the Stolp Parking garage. The victim thrie three times to sound the alarm and it didn't work. They also have cameras in the garage and nobody was watching.
Camera's are not needed. But I'm sure we'll hire a couple people to maintain them. Oh hell why not just have another department w/ an overpaid department head too.
Here's an idea. Fix the streets.
Is Commander Groom the same officer that promoted his wife to sergeant and passed up other highly qualified candidates. If so, I don't think he has much credibility eh?
whats the cost??
It's the way of the future. Good move.
11/16 @ 12:00
You are correct, sir.
I think there should be a camera in the mayor's office all the time so everyone can see just how absurd the waste and incompetence is with this mayor, his cronies and his administration.
Ain't it interesting Weisner opposes cameras in high-crime areas, but had them installed all over city hall so he can figure out who comes and goes?
Did someone say something about cost? Doesn't matter. Whatever the cost is is what we will pay because Tommy wants this. It's not his money, it's your money.
Was this idea even brought before the city council and voted on or was this just another Mayor's pork-belly mandate like that silly Wi-Fi?
What a waste. Is this even a big enough problem to spend the money on? Does the ends justify the means here? I think Weisner want to impress the people that he's doing something but he's spending money foolishly. I don't even see cops radar monitoring anymore for speeders. What's up with that?
To serve, protect, and raise money.
Come'on people, give Weisner credit. He's trying to find as many ways as possible to fleece taxpayers so he can enrich his cronies who enrich him. Someone has to look out for the cronies and that's Tom Weisner.
Does anyone know if these "violations" would be prosecuted by county courts or Aurora's kanagroo court? I'm not a lawyer, but it seems like an obvious problem if a violation is issued to a car, not the driver. These are MOVING violations, not like parking tickets.
Under the logic being used, a cop could see a car going through a red light and not even stop it and pull over the driver, just send the ticket to the owner. In our legal system, you have the right to confront your accuser. Where does that fit in?
If we want to raise revenue, let's start a crony tax. Wegman, Mundy, Cordogan, etc should all have to pay 80% of their bloated profits on any deal with the city as a tax. That would raise tens of millions instantly.
Hey, another way to raise money is to fire most of the people around Weisner, including that temp employee and the $15K going to Hipp to write his check once a month.
Don't forget ADS as another crony.
They don't need cameras in areas to monitor red-light violators.
They need cameras to monitor violators in red-light areas.
Red-light cameras are completely un-American.
The courts will do whatever the law-enforcememt community wants them to do (wink,wink,nudge,nudge).
Another well thought through idea by are crack crew at the City. Maybe this even could be another WIG. Boy it makes ya so proud to be an auroran. The fact that our city has as its top goal to reduce shooting 20%, has to pass a law to make people take their plastic santas down, and force people clean up their properties. At some point this all becomes a little embarrassing.
Why even have red lights if you all don't care if people run them? All intersections should be uncontroled and open. We'll use the honor system to get throught. Yeah, that's an idea
We don't pay for the cameras. The company who owns then puts them in maintains them and then splits the fine with us. It's really not a bad deal for the city.
sure if your into big brother ideas
just take a look at the picture openline has for this topic. Yeah, that is the country I want to live in. Maybe if we got our act together in this country we would'nt need all this eye in the sky crap.
Have any of you been at a light that turned yellow the red and had someone run it and hit you and maybe you didn't get hurt or maybe the worst happened? In our day to day life when we are driving and we see the people that are so much in a hurry to run those lights and hurt someone do we not care? So you people that are in so much of a hurry to run that light and hurt someone maybe you should be fined and safe someones life.
WHAT!!!!
I'd rather see a no smoking ordiance that will really save lives.
. This is just a pre-election boondoggle just as the 25 mile speed limit they are now pushing.
Question: Who will enforce these things? The police do not make traffic stops now.
I used to live in Sioux City, Iowa, and they were talking about installing these right before I left. With their system, the company they get them from pays for the cameras and they take a part of the fee in return, so it didn't cost the city anything. A lot of people there played up the notion that if someone else was using your car and violated the law, you'd get the ticket. Well, you are responsible for what someone else does with your car. I honestly don't see why so many people think this is such a bad idea. We've probably all seen people almost getting in accidents or getting in accidents because they entered the intersection long after the light changed. People need to relax and stop being in such a hurry. And with the previously mentioned system, it didn't catch people who were half way through the intersection when the light changed, only those who didn't enter the intersection until after it changed. Those people deserve a ticket because they are endangering lives.
Hey Buddy!!!
May I borrow your car?
I wonder if they'll ticket the cops who constantly run red lights in Aurora?
tfb
Yeah, let's tell the cops to stop running red lights. No wait, let's just tell them to stop when they're responding to someone robbing your home, or when your kids are lost, or when your laying on the side of the road after a bad accident. Idiot.
The idea that a company and a government profit from a citizen's mistake is a bit appalling. They should make money the old-fashioned way....EARN it. Although, it is a good point to drive defensively.
True story...I was driving behind some City of Aurora SUV (and when did we start paying for a guy to roam around in an SUV paid by taxpayers?).
He went through a red light. I happened to catch up to him later and he went through another one (no, he wasn't on an emergency).
Do city workers and fleecers like Weisner get convicted of these violations or are they magically exempt?
I am an attorney and this could be a problem to enforce. Traffic violations would need to be prosecuted in the local branch court. The standard of proof is a preponderance of the evidence, which is more than fifty percent. The City would have to establish who was driving the vehicle. It would not be sufficient to ticket the vehicle. If the defendant refuses to testify, or denies driving the vehicle, the City must have some way to establish the driver's identity.
I guess this will give another Weisner crony a job prosecuting as we got rid of all the qualified attorneys and kept the idiots, like Weingartz.
to annon 11/18 @ 12:03 am
Could you help with what is going on with the school board in d131? there is so many things out there that has been found out that is being done wrong, but need help from a legual point of view.
3:09 this is not exclusive to 131. Look at any district and you will find the same things going on all be it at differing levels.
What a bunch of bone-headed commentaries. These cameras are being used across the country as the smart way to crack speeders. From reading these posts, you'd think that the bloogers would be in favor of going back to cops on motorcycles with black leather jackets and chaps chasing around speeders with mirrored sun glasses. The city of Chicago has used this smart technology quite successfully. So have many other modern cities. Everyone out there should appreciate a good practice. Get with it. It's 2006.
It's not 2006, it's "1984".
My name is not Winston and I don't really like chocolate stolen from my sister. I do appreciate a more law-abiding City where rights are doled out in favor of protecting children, not stop light-running renegades.
If the lights were timed so that your car wasn't stopped at every single one, there probably wouldn't be enough red-light runners to ticket any more...
Let's post some aditional stupid reasons to justify people breaking the law.
The Beacon ran a thoughtful, well-reasoned and responsible editorial today on this issue. Kicked your rear end!
To the Beacon staff member who wrote the above comment, I am an attorney and thought the editorial was irresponsible. It was seriously flawed.
In your zest for jealousy of this blog, the Beacon's journalism continues to spiral downward.
Thank you Openline for sharing with us the facts the fishwrap doesn't want us to know about.
I initially thought the red-light cameras might be a good idea, but I definitely think there are big questions that need to be answered first.
The fishwrap's editorial was absurd. Does Mike Cetera write those or the stand-up comic?
Why doesn't the fishwrap just say they agree with any dumb idea as long as it pleases Tommy?
I am going to contact my alderman and ask them to OPPOSE this red-light camera idea.
Openline
Excellent posting. Well researched. Again you rise above.
I would like for the Beacon staff member who wrote comments on 11/19 at 7:58 and 7:59pm to have the courage to identify themselves. Andre Salles? Matt DeFour? Mike Cetera? Rick Nagel? Which one of you got so cocky to write those, only to have that terrible editorial blown apart today?
Thank you Openline for shedding light to this issue and educating everyone about the facts.
Great info by Openline and it completely contradicts the claims by the fishwrap.
Do the fishwrap editors fact-check their own editorials? They look like complete fools.
The local paper is a tool for the APD.
This is the same group of "editors" that said the east referendum should pass "Unequivocally". What a bunch of knumbnuts.
Finally, all those jerks that are speeding through the lights will get what they deserve. And here's a thought, don't let someone irresponsible drive your car.
When it's unlawful to allow someone to drive your car, THEN you can apply this red-light camera logic, but in the meantime, it's unethical.
Openline schools the fishwrap...again.
I don't like people going through red lights, but it's obvious (thanks to Openline) there's some potential downside to this. Too bad the fishwrap lacks the ability to think through issues. What do they do with all those resources?
The fishwrap said red-light cameras have been constitutionally upheld...not true. To my knowledge, it's been challenged in certain states and has yet to hit the level of being "upheld" by a federal court.
I do think the fishwrap was trying to mislead people to think it had been upheld by the US Supreme Court. The fishwrap's editorial was completely wrong and kudos to Openline for their analysis.
Is Richard Irvin running?
We need somebody in the City Council to stop all this non-sense!
Besides Rick and Stephanie, that is...
Openline is correct and the fishwrap is wrong on the stats. These red-light cameras can create more accidents and the ONLY "benefit" is to jack up revenue.
The fishwrap seems like they are trying to win some award for worst paper of the century with all their mistakes the last year.
Great editorial, Beacon. And I am not their employee. This City needs to continue and embrace modern approaches to traffic enforcement. If you fear that someone will drive your car through a red light, take responsibility and don't let irresponsible people drive your car. Full speed ahead on this one but just make sure you stop when it's red.
11/20 7:38
They will need more than the three of them, that is if he wins. For things to really change at least four of the six seats up for re-election will need to change over. And I am not sure all those running would support your opinion on the state of affairs here in Aurora.
There are many safety hazards associated with red light cameras. People tend to drive erratically around these lights. See this web site www.photoenforced.com for more information.
Dear 7:38:
What has Irvin done over the last year and a half in the way of community involvement? I don't seem to have read about him getting involved positively in anything. What's he been doing that would qualify him to be such a great member of the City Council?
What does Irvin expect? That at election time he will pop up like a jack-in-the-box and say "Here I am,,,give me your support".
NOT!!!!
I heard that. Our votes should be awarded to those who are out there on the front lines, not part-time snipers off in the bleachers.
I love it. We can all expect Richard Irvin to be out front and center in 2007 talking about how much he loves Aurora and how he really wants to make a big difference. Where's his proving ground? Hello out there, anybody home?
These cameras have been up and running all over liberal Europe for years. Not only at stoplights, but on the highways. All people complain about is the traffic in their neighborhoods, mayne cameras there would catch them or their neighbors breaking a traffic law and the complaining would stop.
Richard Irvin, have you been AWOL from City business for the last year and a half? Or do you wait for the campaign season to show how interested you are in City issues?
10:39 I agree. I also am wary of the upcoming "announcements" that will be made in the near future to try and lift up some alderman that are going for reelection. Some of them have also sat on the sidelines. To late. The mayor is not a very popular man at the momenet (at least with the people I know) and the next few months can really define him.
Must be the pension, health insurance, monthly pay, perks for payment of cell phones, conferences, mileage for driving to and from city hall for meetings, etc. I say take away it all and see who is left. I bet Schuler and Peters would be the first to say adios.
So how much does the mayor and aldermen make? What is the worth of the other perks? This should be public information....right?
I bet not one person knows this other than the elected officials.
Go ahead, better make your noise now, while you can. There may be one alderman that falls by the wayside this spring, two at outside. One thing is for sure, the postings and sentiments on this blog will have nothing to do with the outcome.
11/26 at 1:58pm, you are quite full of yourself. I think the blog will have a much bigger impact on the 2007 elections than the fishwrap, but which are the "one or two" alderman that will fall? Schuler? Peters? Beykirch? Saville? Shelton? I'd like to see those five get ousted. If I wanted a rubber stamp to be alderman, we could go to an office supply store and buy one and put that instead in their chairs.
You're right 1:44.
Even tho this is public information since our leaders are paid with our tax dollars...none of these bloggers have this information or if they do know, will not share it. I've heard the D131 school tax increase on the referendum was nothing more than to also give the mayor and aldermen a pay raise.
One of the perks I find particularly interesting for Tommy is the special water he imports to City Hall. Apparently, the water the rest of us have to drink isn't good enough for him. This is from the department head who went AWOL during the water crisis.
Your taxdollars hard at work.
Great examples of some more noise.
The Mayor makes over $100K a year, the city pays $536 a month for his car, the City pays for him to fly to Washington, he gets full medical and now will be vested for his retirement in IMRF (due to the water crisis, he left the City two years shy of retirement, but now he's made up that time & got a higher salary than before) and he takes many vacations to Florida. The aldermen make something like $13K a year plus full benefits.
"What has Richard Irvin done in the past 1 1/2 years"; I would like to know what has Bob Sheldon done in the past 3 1/2? Oh wait, he ran for Township Supervisor! Sounds like he really wanted to be Alderman, but probably since he'll lose the extra pay and benefits he decided to run for 4 more years of taking tax payer money and not having to do anything. I say it doesn't matter what Richard has done cuz Bob hasn't done anything either, but at least Richard won't be a RUBBER STAMP for the Mayor and will stand up for the taxpayers.
WHY do we pay for Weisner's car?
Dear 5:09 p.m.:
Typical poster response when a simple question is asked. Particularly, when it concerns an incumbent. At least Shelton has been attending community meetings, is a member of the Building and Grounds Committee and attends them regularly, and has been handling constituent complaints. The question had to do with what Irvin has done over the past one and a half years in the way of community service. I guess we have your answer.
Also, more noise.
Tom Weisner gets paid over $100K and needs us to pay for his car? Why? Doesn't he have a car?
Bob Shelton is one of the most useless alderman in history. I disagree with Chris Beykirch on almost everything, BUT at least he occassionally has something to say. I am no fan of Richard Irvin, but Bob Shelton has just been a rubber stamp. I don't want to see that. Unless Bob Shelton can prove he's able to stand up to Weisner (which he won't), he's toast.
And what has Irvin done the last year and a half that would show he has an interest in the community? I know he has an interest in himself and making it into public office, but what else? At least Shelton was involved in the Tanner Historic Group and his neighborhood organization. He also did other volunteer work in the City. What's been Irvin's proving ground?
Bob Shelton decided he didn't like the West side (in the Tanner District) and moved to the far south-east side in a nice new townhouse. Talk about abandoning the area. I say that speaks tons, he moves out of a diverse area into an all white area, runs for Township Supervisor and drives a Mercedes and now wants to be re-elected??? It doesn't fly with me, I won't be voting for him.
I can't see how doing your elected job "Member of the Building and Grounds Committee" is merit. I honestly don't know what community things Richard has done; but then again I don't know what Bob Shelton has done either. Therefore, to me I would like to see a change and will vote for Richard.
Bob Shelton has done a lot...
...supported Weisner's tax increases
...supported Weisner's wild spending
...supported Weisner's drive-in murder
...supported Weisner's cronyism
I guess that means Irvin has not done anything over the past year and a half in the way of community involvement. I only see Shelton slams. It will be interesting to see how Irvin spins the interest factor once he announces. The people I speak with are interested in Irvin's background, not a bunch of sophmoric cuts against the sitting alderman.
Inconsiderate drivers who think THEIR time is more valuable than yours and mine run red lights - and plow into those who obey the law by stopping at an intersection when it is evident that they cannot clear the intersection before the light turns red. Take a few pictures of them as they run the red lights and send them tickets/fine them. When I count three vehicles going across an intersection AFTER my red light has turned green, I ask WTH are these people thinking? I hope they hit a tree!... before they kill someone.
What the writer opposing the 'fishwrap' fails to mention in his/her spouting of facts about increases in numbers of collisions at red-light camera intersections is that the majority of these collisions are minor 'fender benders.' Red lights cause accidents and umbrellas make it rain! Ridiculous logic from people who don't want to be photographed running red lights.
In other areas those cameras have caught the faces of the drivers, not just the car. It has been reported that dead beat dads, unlicensed drivers and repeat / habitual offenders have been photographed running these red lights where the cameras have been installed.
I am a police officer in California and happened to come across this discussion from a link. Our community's experience was that the vast majority of violations were split-second types. Almost all of them would not have been the type of violations if a police officer had been present. We did find an increase in rear-end accidents. The argument for these cameras is purely financial, not public safety.
"I am a police officer..." seems to indicate he/she should be believed more than the facts that have been reported here as a result of having cameras at certain intersections where too many cars have shown a disregard for public safety. Cars have been photographed going through the intersections several SECONDS after the light turned red, NOT tenths of a second. (I hope the dump truck that recently ran the red light after it had been red for several seconds had his picture taken!)
It's not financial, for if it were, people would quit running red lights and endangering the lives of the rest of us who obey the law, and there would be no money to be paid to the government.
Perhaps drivers in this guy's community are more considerate.
I recently experienced a head-on collision because a driver traveled in the turn lane (a distance of more than 200 feet and at a speed greater than the 45 mph limit) in order to pass traffic waiting for the light to change.
I have had impatient drivers do this before; and when they got to the traffic light at the intersection, they didn't turn left, they changed lanes in the intersection and proceeded down the road, successfully passing all the other vehicles.
My brother is from Virginia and he tells me the state has BANNED these red-light cameras, mainly because of public safety.
If there are intersections that have huge problems with red-light violations, the question is that what is the city doing NOW about it? If it's such a problem and so frequent, why aren't police targeting that intersection to save lives and rack up violations?
My understanding is this idea for Aurora was NOT because of some big public safety problem, but simply because it was a revenue-generating idea heard from elsewhere.
I know Irvine is a practicing attorney. So he must have a Bachelors or Masters degree as well as a law degree. Very impressive. He Also served his country in the armed forces.
I'm just curious, but, did weisner serve in the armed forces? What type of education does he have? Just wondering...
I heard Weisner dodged the draft. Can anyone provide any proof otherwise?
Weisner has a degree from Aurora University. Their educational background was set out during the campaign. Irvin's military background was also out there. I would like to know what Irvin has done in the community over the past year and a half? What interest has he shown in the City that would make him a good candidate for alderman? Actions speak louder than words.
to annon 12/02 @ 9:35am
You are right actions do speak louder than words. Weisner actions are wrong. His words are even worse. I, for one, will vote for Irvin. We may not have heard from him in awhile, but no one probably will have heard anything from whomever is running for alderman at large. This I do know, Sheldon was a puppet for the Mayor and Bigelow about the Drive-In. I acceopt that it is gone, but where is the donation to D131? Bigelow got what he wanted with the help of the mayor(and what about the $6,500.00?). It is a dog eat dog world, but this dog is not eating what it is being fed.
So I guess that Irvin has not done anything in the last year and a half in the way of community involvement.
to annon 12/03 @ 9:21am
Call Irvin and ask him. Find out for yourself. The involvement that I have witnessed from the aldermen at large at this point is to do what the Mayor wants. Yes, I did go to the City Council meetings. Puppets but two, and one I am beginning to question myself about.
Speaking of education. Anyone realize the Chief of Police never graduated high school. He only has a GED. That sets a real good example. Someone with a GED leading the states second largest Police Department!? No offense, but I bet the kid working the cash registure at a gas station has more education and communication skills!
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