(Sunday) John Russell, a 58 year old patient from Aurora at Provena Mercy Center Hospital, was allegedly shot by an unnamed Aurora police officer and reports by the local fishwrap claimed the person died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound (we understand the fishwrap's story is not correct...the person was shot by police and not by a self-inflicted gunshot).
The five hour situation on Saturday allegedly started with Mr. Russell holding another patient hostage for some period.
***UPDATE 11/20/06
Here's what the local fishwrap said on Sunday:
"The apparent suicide of a 58-year-old armed patient ended a nearly five-hour standoff with police Saturday at Provena Mercy Medical Center in Aurora. Aurora Police Chief Bill Powell said officers opened fire after Johnnie Russell pointed a handgun at them. Preliminary investigations indicate he killed himself before police shot him."
- Fishwrap
Leaving aside the obvious question of why police would shoot someone AFTER he's killed himself and the lack of any evidence of a suicide, we note the Chicago Tribune's story (and reality) shows the fishwrap once again rushed to judgment and got it wrong. Here's what the Chicago Tribune said:
"An autopsy Sunday determined that a 58-year-old Aurora man who engaged police in a nearly five-hour armed standoff at a hospital there Saturday died from gunshot wounds after being shot by a police officer."
-Chicago Tribune
Then, the Tribune quotes Dan Ferrelli, the spokesman for the Aurora Police Department:
"A member of the Aurora Police Department's Special Response Team then fired on Russell," Ferrelli said.
Ferrelli said Russell was shot in the face, arm and side. No one else was injured.
"Per standard protocol, the officer, a 12-year Aurora police veteran, has been reassigned to administrative duties pending the outcome of the investigation."
Perhaps the local fishwrap needs to spend more time on FACTS instead of reporting speculation and rushing to judgment or assumptions. It's apparent they haven't learned enough from their other numerous journalistic blunders.
We also note the family is disputing police claims of what the 58 year old said because they say the man could not talk. Some reports also say they were not contacted during the 5 hours prior to the man being shot.
The five hour situation on Saturday allegedly started with Mr. Russell holding another patient hostage for some period.
***UPDATE 11/20/06
Here's what the local fishwrap said on Sunday:
"The apparent suicide of a 58-year-old armed patient ended a nearly five-hour standoff with police Saturday at Provena Mercy Medical Center in Aurora. Aurora Police Chief Bill Powell said officers opened fire after Johnnie Russell pointed a handgun at them. Preliminary investigations indicate he killed himself before police shot him."
- Fishwrap
Leaving aside the obvious question of why police would shoot someone AFTER he's killed himself and the lack of any evidence of a suicide, we note the Chicago Tribune's story (and reality) shows the fishwrap once again rushed to judgment and got it wrong. Here's what the Chicago Tribune said:
"An autopsy Sunday determined that a 58-year-old Aurora man who engaged police in a nearly five-hour armed standoff at a hospital there Saturday died from gunshot wounds after being shot by a police officer."
-Chicago Tribune
Then, the Tribune quotes Dan Ferrelli, the spokesman for the Aurora Police Department:
"A member of the Aurora Police Department's Special Response Team then fired on Russell," Ferrelli said.
Ferrelli said Russell was shot in the face, arm and side. No one else was injured.
"Per standard protocol, the officer, a 12-year Aurora police veteran, has been reassigned to administrative duties pending the outcome of the investigation."
Perhaps the local fishwrap needs to spend more time on FACTS instead of reporting speculation and rushing to judgment or assumptions. It's apparent they haven't learned enough from their other numerous journalistic blunders.
We also note the family is disputing police claims of what the 58 year old said because they say the man could not talk. Some reports also say they were not contacted during the 5 hours prior to the man being shot.
85 comments:
Once again, the fishwrap screws up by calling something a suicide when there's NO EVIDENCE.
New WIG shootings in hospitals up 100%
If you read the last paragraph of the article, it clearly stated that the autopsy would determine if it was self-inflicted or from the policeman. Isn't that the appropriate and real thing to report? Or were you there and saw what happened?
The Beacon made it very clear to me what happened. A guy killed himself or maybe was shot and killed by a cop while he either was or was not firing or pointing a weapon at the police. You just have to know how to read the Beacon, it was all there.
GOOD JOB APD!!!!!
So now what? Metal detectors installed at all the entrances?
The fishwrap's story was wrong. There was NOTHING to substantiate a self-inflicted gunshot except total speculation or someone trying to cover -up what actually happened.
And, it took other media to get to the truth.
Maybe if the fishwrap staff writing here to defend itself spent as much time on gathering facts, they wouldn't look so foolish.
What else should we expect from a paper run by a stamd up comic and whose reporters are a bunch of greenhorns.
The fishwrap is exposed again.
Thank God for this blog and other media.
The Beacon got it wrong because they reported what the Police told them:
“Police had said earlier in the day that he died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, but at a later afternoon press conference, (Chief) Powell said officials were still investigating conflicting stories. Later in the evening, police said their preliminary investigations show, but do not confirm, that Russell fired once at police and shot himself.”
It appears that within several hours the Police report several different versions of the shooting to the press. They are not sure if Russell shot at them!! They are not sure if he shot himself!! Yet they hold press conferences to spread their inaccurate speculation. Smells like a cover-up of a Police screw-up.
The Police tell us that trained professionals made the decision not to call Mr. Russell’s family. These are the same trained professionals that cannot determine what happened. If they are not sure what happened, they should keep their mouth shut and investigate.
It is not surprising that the Beacon got it wrong – They reported what the Police told them.
Speaking of not reporting. Has anyone noticed that Shodeens project looks to be stopped? I went by there this weekend and all the equipment is gone it looks like he pulled off the job. Did something happen? Openline do you know whats going on?
Once again the local paper, shows themselves to be a tool of the APD and not a free-press newspaper. The APD decides what gets printed and what does not get printed.It's clear to me that the cops at the hospital decided to lie after things went "wrong". They ordered their media spokesman(who is an honest man)to tell the world that is was a "likely" suicide". The cops shot and killed a guy. They KNEW IT WAS NOT A SUICIDE. It's not the first time APD has been caught lying when things go "wrong". The person responsible for ordering the Media Spokesman to spread false information should be fired and identified. I know it was a diffucult situation, maybe the guy had to be shot but c'mon guys stop the freakin' lying part when things go wrong. Aurora needs a Citizens Oversight Board to stop this lying crap. I've been on the wrong end of a cop lying. It's got to stop.
I think the chief in his quest to be in front of the camera screwed this one up. He has a media guy, let him do it. There are way too many chiefs at APD and not enough indians. The right hand better tell the left hand what he is doing.
I wonder how the APD will classify this as thier own members of the force are openly stating that incidents are being reclassified to adjust the numbers so things do not look as bad as they are. I have spoken to three long time officers that say what is going on is criminal and giving the citizens of aurora a false sense of security.
Good for Openlineblog.com. They got the story correct. Only problem, it's about 36 hours later. Some scoop!!!
They got the story correct. They don't print something just because a certain local law enforcement dept. wants them to do it. Their role as a media outlet is report accurately and sometimes question things when there seems to be something that doesn't seem right. [ Cop(s) shoot man..likely suicide (?) }.
Openline got it right and the fishwrap got it wrong, but that's the usual.
Why is the police officer's name being kept confidential when the victim's name is not? Shouldn't the APD release the name?
We have some good police officers in Aurora, but if this is a case where someone went too far, we need to be as aggressive in dealing with it as we would do with any shooting.
The Chicago media and Fox News Channel were quite candid in their "suspicions" of the conflicting reports of the first reports from the scene, on Sunday. The APD took some criticisms on Sunday. Rule #1: Never lie.
Here's what the fishwrap ridiculously wrote on Sunday:
"The apparent suicide of a 58-year-old armed patient ended a nearly five-hour standoff with police Saturday at Provena Mercy Medical Center in Aurora. Aurora Police Chief Bill Powell said officers opened fire after Johnnie Russell pointed a handgun at them. Preliminary investigations indicate he killed himself before police shot him."
Not only is the above FALSE, but if you read the last sentence, it makes no sense. If the police lied at first, that's bad, but that's no excuse for the fishwrap to have made the above statements without ANY proof or something to back it up.
Whatever fishwrap editor that allowed such a ridiculous statement to slip by of someone being shot after killing themselves should be fired.
I hope if anyone from the APD lied about this incident, they are fired. There has to be a zero tolerance for people in law enforcement telling lies. The moment you allow lies, you destroy the integrity and credibility of everyone in law enforcement.
The fishwrap needs to start printing the truth as a rule, not the exception.
Thanks Openline for once again sorting fact from fiction.
Who ordered The Media spokesman to say "apparent suicide". I would think the Media spokesman is NOT HAPPY with being fed bogus information.
Just a guess, but I think there's probably more than one part that lied.
Someone may have lied to Dan Ferrelli, who could have added his own spin to the fishwrap, which we all know has no hesitation to print lies and come up with baseless assumptions.
I think Openline hit it on the head recently when they said things like this could be avoided if the priority was integrity. We should expect and demand the APD and fishwrap to come clean on how such false things were reported.
I like Chief Powell, but the only thing worse than what happened is any attempt to cover-up or pretend the APD did everything right. I have friends who are APD officers and I want them to be known as trustworthy people. That's why we need to be honest, no matter where the chips may fall.
Why does everyone assume the officer at the scene did something wrong?
Have you ever had anyone pull a gun on you or for that matter shot at you? I have. It's not a pleasant experience.
Until you've been in the situation that officer was in, don't be so quick to judge.
If you think it's an easy job, then take the next test and put your life on the line.
I doubt you will.
What went wrong was "after" the guy was shot.
Powell + Weisner = Fuzzy Statistics
For Christ sake, a man lost his life here. No matter what the story or topic is, it always boils down to who's right, who's wrong between this blog and the Beacon.
Why don't you just forgo the real
stories from now on and just have a non-stop continuous bitch session about how terrible the Beacon is?
It seems thats all you folks care about anyway.
John DoBran is in charge of investigations, right?
No wonder the whole thing is screwed up.
Why is so hard for the APD spokesman or the fishwrap to just tell the TRUTH?
If John DoBran is the one who lied, then he should be fired. It's unfortunate he wasn't fired long ago when he messed up the Marilyn Bethyl investigation. He's a hothead and has no respect for others.
Umm, I hope Weisner counts this as a shooting for his idiotic WIG stats.
I hear this Dobran guy has cost the city plenty of $$. He's been sued several times and moved right up the ladder for some reason. Can you say Negligent Retention?
Dobran sounds like a real loser. Weisner's type of guy.
The bloggers that post here were disappointed that FOX canceled the story about O.J. and are also haters of the Beacon-News.
If Chief Powell is going to grandstand to take credit for the work of his officers, he should at least get his facts straight before he opens his mouth to the media. This guy is nothing but a Weisner tool.
It's great to see everyone patting openline on the back because they have the full story in this case, even though they can update their website whenever they feel like it while actual newspapers have a press time and need to go to press with the information they have available at the time. That's why they write a follow up story the next day, as the Beacon did. Somehow I doubt that Openline blog had a reporter at the scene. All they did was wait until the full story was out, read it, and then put their interpretation up on here. Without the Beacon, Tribune, Daily Herald, Sun-Times, you'd have no idea that half these things were going on. Like someone said, you're more concerned with your feud with the paper than with what's actually going on in this town. Do you think you're going to drive them out of business? What would you write about if you did? You'd have no target to bitch about and you'd have no source of information.
To the Beacon (fishwrap) staff member who wrote at 11/21/06 at 1:27am:
It's too bad you won't identify yourself because I think you and others at the fishwrap keep missing the point.
The Beacon got it wrong and it remains to be seen if the Beacon will have the courage to expose who lied (the APD or the Beacon). This blog initially reported the basics, but didn't jump to the same incorrect conclusions (suicide) you guys did.
It seems the Beacon veers off the deep end when it comes to putting facts and conclusions together. In some cases, it rushes to judgment and comes up with bogus things. In other cases, it ignores hard info, keeps out clear facts (like with the drive-in theater land scam or campaign contributions).
This blog does what the Beacon does not. Think through issues, cut through the smoke and sort out what it real. They really do tell it like it is. I don't think the blog tries to be a newspaper. They have great writers, great analysis and great information. They have impacted real issues and real discussions and I doubt they have 1% of the resources the Beacon does.
Everyone I know who's "someone" in Aurora reads this blog, but many people I know don't read the Beacon. What does that say?
I think the Beacon staff is very jealous of the blog and should get over it. The blog has earned respect and I would like to see the Beacon find a way to work with the blog instead of whining.
Last, but not least, I think I speak for many in this community who have noticed that it's not just the blog that gets it right compared to the Beacon, but it's also other news media (Tribune, Daily Herald, KCC). The problems with the Beacon are unique to the Beacon and even other newspapers don't seem to have the same credibility problems.
The Beacon keeps losing credibility and subscribers. The best thing that could happen is if the blog was in charge of the Beacon. That would be the only I'd ever return to being a subscriber.
The Beacon reported on what may have happened. There was no concrete evidence unitl the autopsy was completed.
This unfortunate incident might have been prevented if our society allowed doctor assisted euthanasia of for those that want to die.
We put our pets to sleep if they are in pain or suffering. Most people care more for their pets than they do for other humans.
We should afford humans the same option if they are in severe pain, suffering a great deal or if they feel they are at the end of their useful life span.
If this was the case, there would be no need for suicide by a cop.
There is great intellect in the United States but very little common sense.
Yes, the local paper got it wrong because they play the role of loyal lap dog to the APD. But the real issue is credibility. Why do cops feel the need to lie when things go "wrong". Apparent suicide ? C,mon guys.....Why would you put a good man like Dan Ferrelli in that type situation ? Stop the lying and get your act together.
I wrote the comment at 1:37 a.m., and I do work for a newspaper, but not for the Beacon. If I told you my name, you wouldn't have a clue who I am because I'm not a reporter and my name never gets in the paper. I'm just a peon who works on getting a newspaper out. But I do know how things work in a newsroom. Reporters don't jump to conclusions on their own and write about them. Anything they say in a story is there because someone told that fact to them. If that later proves to be incorrect, they usually write another story to clear it up. We don't have the luxury of waiting until a complete story is out because if we did, people like those on this blog would rip us for having dropped the ball and not covered the story. I know Justina Wang at the Beacon didn't witness the shootout and she didn't see the body. If someone told her it was suicide, that's what she's gonna write. Every time there is an incorrect fact, it doesn't mean someone lied. The police were giving the information they had at the time. They later corrected their statement, so what would have been the point of lying? If they were covering it up, they wouldn't have admitted it later, would they?
I hardly think the Beacon staff is jealous of the blog, unless you mean they are jealous of the ability to say whatever they want about whoever they want with no consequences.
Jeez. Has anyone actually read the Beacon article before commenting on this? The article, as it appeared in the paper and on the Web on Sunday says: "The death of an armed patient at Provena Mercy Medical Center Saturday ended a nearly five-hour standoff with police." The DEATH, not the apparent suicide. The word suicide actually never appears in the paper. Why don't you guys check your facts? The Sun-Times, which owns the fishwrap, were the ones who printed "apparent suicide."
But good job, everyone, commenting on what the Beacon never wrote as proof that they screwed up.
"...but I do know how things work in a newsroom. Reporters don't jump to conclusions on their own and write about them. Anything they say in a story is there because someone told that fact to them. "
I have worked in the media for over 2 decades Print, Radio, TV you name it and your quote shows how little you know and is probably why you are still a 'peon'.
Every reporter, News Director, Producer, Writer I know ( and that represent hundreds across this country) has an agenda and jumps to conclusions. The good ones at least make sure that most of the facts back them up.
The great ones at least know they have an agenda and try to balance that in some way.
Journalism is DEAD!
No one is unbiased these days if they ever were.
There hasn't been a true unbiased Journalist out there for years and even when they did exist they were few and far between.
I think most people realize this and just hope that most find some type of acceptable middle ground.
The Beacon unfortunatley all to often swings to wide probably do to the novice nature of musch of their staff.
If they had some seasoning they would be working for their big brother (Sun Times)
This is often the case at small town papers. The difference with the Beacon is that they ( possiibly because Aurora is now the '2nd Largest city in the state) want to act like big time hot shots instead of diligent beat reporters.
A few thoughts from an oldtimee
Has there ever been any stories on this blog that wasn't reported in the Beacon or some other publication. NO. I'm sure there are not any reporters or news hounds from this blog. Everything written here are only rebuttals from what you have read in the papers. Without them, you would have nothing to squawk about.
Why aren't any of these bloggers identifying themselves like they want the Beacon reporters to do. It's easy to tell someone else to but 99% of the bloggers here remain anonymous. If you folks worked for the media, you wouldn't say what you say here and identify yourselves either. You know if you did, you'd be unemployed real quick.
Oltimee Says:
If I did the math correctly there are aprox 92 active 'stories' on this blog. Only aprox 15 have inserts or quote the Beacon.
Their are many others sources referenced including, 60 minutes, Tribune, Suntimes, other blogs and TV news and iTube movies etc. Most are original thoughts that only use the reference to legitimize or offer other rezources on that specific topic.
Seems to me you must be full of yourself if you really think:
"Has there ever been any stories on this blog that wasn't reported in the Beacon...
... I'm sure there are not any reporters or news hounds from this blog. Everything written here are only rebuttals from what you have read in the papers. Without them, you would have nothing to squawk about."
Now my math may not be perfect but it is close which totally disproves your assertion.
Sorry but again this must be why you are still a 'Peon'
Your word not mine.
I reslly am beginning to like thie new media thing.
Oldtimee:)
Sorry for the bad spelling my eyes aren't what they use to be :)
Oldtimee
Dobran needs all of that $$$$ to support his 2 families
Oldtimee:
5:10
In as much as some of these bloggers state their opinion and may make generalizations on a group of bloggers, it does not give you cause to launch personal attacks. Calling another blogger a 'Peon' lowers yourself amongst higher class people.
Two families?? expound please.......surely he doesn't really have two families; does he?
His family and his wife's family.
So.....he's divorced and has children by two different women? Big deal, that's not two families sir.
11/21 @ 7:25
That's true.
Unless you're not divorced.
Here's a story from the associated press released on Sun, Nov 19, 2006:
By Nathanial Hernandez
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
AURORA- A standoff with an armed patient at a suburban Chicago hospital Saturday ended with the gunman dead of a gunshot wound, according to authorities who also said they were uncertain of the source of the fatal shot.
The 58-year-old Aurora man, whose identity was not released by authorities, died of a gunshot wound to the head.
Aurora police spokesman Dan Ferrelli first said the man, after refusing to surrender for 4 1/2 hours, opened the door to his room at Provena Mercy Medical Center and fired one shot at police. He said that police returned fire and, after hearing no further sounds, entered the room and found the man dead.
However, Aurora Police Chief William Powell later said it wasn't clear if gunfire had been exchanged between the man and police.
Authorities were first called to the scene on a report of an "unruly patient," Powell said.
The first officer to reach the floor where the man had barricaded himself reported the man said he wanted police to shoot him.
"He indicated that more than once," Powell said.
At one point, food was placed outside the door of the man's room. The man opened and closed the door several times before he opened the door and pointed the gun at police, who opened fire, Powell said.
Police also fired tear gas before entering the room and finding the man dead on the floor.
Provena Mercy CEO Bill Brown refused to release any information about the dead patient, citing patient confidentiality laws.
Before the fatal shooting, a 71-year old male patient was briefly held in the hospital room where the man was holed up, but he was released after police intervened. Authorities relocated 26patients on that floor to other areas of the hospital.
The incident began around 8:30 a.m. Saturday when hospital security officers alerted a patrol officer at the hospital to a combative patient. The officer cleared the hallway, drew her service weapon and peeked into the man's room, according to authorities.
The officer saw the man point the handgun at her and heard him threaten to harm himself and police officers, authorities said.
The hospital was locked down at the start of the incident, preventing anyone from leaving or entering the facility about 30 miles west of Chicago.
Hospital officials plan to review its security policies, Brown said, pointing out the facility is a "quasi-public institution and building where people come anbd go" and can never be as secure as an airport.
It seems like powell wasn't too sure about things.
The man had a gun. How did he get it into the hospital? How long had this person been in the hospital? Did he have the gun the whole time? Could it not be that it is his parents and his wifes parents, instead of 2 families? For anyone who asks about posting as an annon, all of you post as annon and do not give your name, so why even make the statement? My question is, why shoot him in the head? There was tear gas thrown, why not shoot him to disarm him? Just a question. I know, easy for me to ask, but just a thought.
Pat, I see some reason for concern as well. One of the biggest things is that the patient may not have been able to talk. If that is the case, it doesnt seem possible that he could have threatened officers. Hopefully the internal investigation will include some type of talkikng to hospital workers to see if he could talk. The family might want to call the state police or the FBI to make sure a fair investigation is done. I mean a human did lose there life here, this is very serious.
Unlike the Bethell investigation debacle, this man has a family to stand-up for him in his wake. It's sad that a man who served his country in Vietnam was appaprently depressed and having "flashbacks" at times according to his neighbors. I don't see where using "gas" and shooting the guy go together. "Gas" is intended to diffuse the situation not escalate it. I would urge the family stay in contact with the Chicago media to keep some pressure on so they this doesn't go away like they did with the Bethell case. The idea of having an outside dept. look into this matter is excellent. The man should not have had weapons on him, but what happened has a real bad "smell" about it.
You point a gun at a cop, you are going to die.
End of story.
Yes, cops will even blow away a 92 year old woman.
11/23 @ 9:53
If she can point a loaded gun at a cop, and apply seven pounds of trigger pressure with her index finger, then she is a potential killer, my friend.
Maybe the cop should have asked the guy pointing a gun at him how old he was. Then we could all mourn another cop getting shot.
Seems like a certain police dept needs to update their training methods(ie. use of non-lethal force). Trying to defend a cop shooting a 92 year old woman is ignorant.
I have heard that this man who was shot could not speak due to the fact he had a stroke. He could nod his head for yes or no and had a piece of paper that stated he could not speak. Hope this is looked into and the ones who took care of him at the hospital and was there at the time of the incident are questioned. Yes, I know police officers have to defend theirselves, but does it always mean that a person has to die?
I don't know what happened in this specific situation, but the reality is there are both very good police officers and very bad ones. Which one was involved in this? Not sure, but I agree it needs to be investigated and this is one of those situations where if a police officer did something...ANYTHING wrong, it's critical for the department to come down hard on him. If the officer was truly justified in shooting multiple times, that means this situation got out of control somehow and we need to figure out how to avoid such a tragedy.
On a sidenote, I have several friends who work for the APD. I say to them, some of them who read this blog regularly that we collectively need to root out the bad ones at the APD so the good ones get the credit they deserve. Bad ones include those who lie, make up stuff, use excessive force and the little acts that don't necessarily get the media's attention. In order for the community to trust the good police, we need to be on the same side and that means getting rid of bad civilians and bad police.
This hospital shooting is a tragedy no matter what happened, but I hope the truth and facts come out. Someone lied somewhere and that needs to be dealt with. Either the APD or the Beacon.
to annon 11/24 @ 9:32-10:03 pm
I agree with what both of you have stated. Hope this is looked into throughly.There needs to be some results here. I hope that the Beacon does some really good investigating here. It is not Openlines job. If anything is printed in the Beacon, whoever writes the article should know the facts for the truth. Let there be no cover up. There is a ring of something not being right in this. Really hope I am wrong for all concerned. But, does make one wonder when you see a squad car not do anything about someone running a red light, stop sign, etc. I have seen this for myself and nothing has been done. There are good police officers in Aurora, to bad that the bad ones stick out.
When something of this magnitude occurs; involving the loss of a person, surrondrd by many reported inconsistencies by the police department, the people must call for a thorough unbiased investigation. This can only be achieved by having an outside agency conduct the investigation. Hopefully the Beacon, perhaps even the mayor will turn the investigation over to the attorney generals office or the FBI. The family should demand it.
I'd like for some of these critical posters to be put in the position of the officer. After your soiled pants had been cleaned out, we could riddle your snap judgment.
Hypotheticals don't change the facts or the attempt of twisting the facts to cover someone's backside/pension.
A) The man shot at police. B) The man shot himself (suicide). (C)Coroner says APD shot him. (D) Man did not fire gun. (E) Man was making verbal threats. (Was he able to speak ?) (F) APD says it was "suicide by cop". Is it just me, or is there a credibility issue here ?
For the sake of the man's family, please do not have the department that was involved on this matter investigate itself. It must be done by an outside dept.
There should be an independent group that includes regular citizens and people with law enfocement background to review complaints of any type of police misconduct to determine if there's validity to the complaint, review the police departments internal investigation and have the power to reject that conclusion and seek further investigation and prosecution. That would provide credibility and also make it easier for police to be witness against police, which is the most difficult part of these things.
Maybe you people had rather had the police officer get shot and killed, then could you could all say how dumb the officers were for not defensing themselves.
As a retired officer, we were damned if we did or damned if we didn't.
DON'T CRITIZE UNTIL YOU'VE BEEN THERE.
I like the suggestion made at 2:21pm. That protects both the public and also protects good officers from getting frivolous allegations. We need to root out bad cops and the public has to have complete confidence in the integrity of everyone. At the same time, there are good police officers who do the right thing all the time and we need to find ways to make sure they have incentive to tell the truth.
Come on, we all know DoBran has a wife and a girlfriend at APD, with kids from both.
Maybe the guy had to be shot, I just don't understand the lack of truth after the shooting. Why was this case?
the shooting deal does not pass the smell test.
I cannot confirm this, but maybe someone can in cyber-land....but, I have heard that several of the top officials at the Police Department have children from girlfriends. Interesting if true.
11/26 @ 3:50
It's true
One officer years ago attempted to make an issue out of the two families thing but they shut him down. Most of these guys have moved upward through the ranks while these family issues were taking place. I guess now a days it's no big deal. right to privacy etc.
One thing is for sure, there is no shortage of skeletons in the proverbial closet.
Printed in today's Wall Street Journal:
Simply put, the police culture in our country has changed. An emphasis on "officer safety" and paramilitary training pervades today's policing, in contrast to the older culture, which held that cops didn't shoot until they were about to be shot or stabbed. Police in large cities formerly carried revolvers holding six .38-caliber rounds. Nowadays, police carry semi-automatic pistols with 16 high-caliber rounds, shotguns and military assault rifles, weapons once relegated to SWAT teams facing extraordinary circumstances. Concern about such firepower in densely populated areas hitting innocent citizens has given way to an attitude that the police are fighting a war against drugs and crime and must be heavily armed.
Yes, police work is dangerous, and the police see a lot of violence. On the other hand, 51 officers were slain in the line of duty last year, out of some 700,000 to 800,000 American cops. That is far fewer than the police fatalities occurring when I patrolled New York's highest crime precincts, when the total number of cops in the country was half that of today. Each of these police deaths and numerous other police injuries is a tragedy and we owe support to those who protect us. On the other hand, this isn't Iraq. The need to give our officers what they require to protect themselves and us has to be balanced against the fact that the fundamental duty of the police is to protect human life and that law officers are only justified in taking a life as a last resort.
That is the most ignorant article I have ever read. When this bozo was patrolling the "mean streets" of New York back in his day he didn't something called body armor - a bullet proof vest. More cops are shot, or shot at, today then ever before.
And 51 out of 700,000 is 51 too many. That's 51 lives, 51 families, 51 funerals.
What a mope
Still waiting to hear the outcome of this. Openline have you heard or found anything out? Has anyone else?
Hey, that was a good question. Has anyone heard or found out anything?
I'm just stunned at the unusually high number of funerals for Aurora Police shot and killed in the line of duty. It's staggering.
12/12 @ 10:17
I'm just stunned you could take that big fat sweaty cock out your mouth long enough to post on this blog.
Go. Fuck. Yourself.
5:31 Kiss my ass.
Non-cops are shot and assaulted more than cops. Most cititzens don't go around toting guns and wearing bullet proof vests and don't have an array of fraternal brothers to rush to their aid if necessary. It's more dangerous to be a cititzen than a cop. Especially in Aurora, where the unsolved murder rate is ridiculously high. Where their chief investigator can't even find a corpse just off a walking trail that runs by her home. Where cops bitch and moan about not wanting to live in Aurora. It's f'n ridiculous, if it's so tough go work for a living.
12/13 6:56
Then the next time you need help, jackass, call a citizen. What the fuck do you know about being a cop, anyway? You cocksmoker.
I don't need help from a cop or citizen. Watch your potty mouth, punk.
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