Monday, November 23, 2009

City of Aurora | More Layoffs Announced (Sorta), 2010 Budget, SuperTuesday Preview

The City of Aurora announced on Friday additional layoffs of 5 part-time and 3 full-time employees (all non-exempt), to go along with 36 that already exited earlier through "voluntary reduction in force" plan.

Originally, the City of Aurora said they would layoff 63 employees, but then reduced that number to 36 after negotiations with labor unions, so the announcement today is still overall less than previously announced.

The estimated savings for these 8 employees is $400,000 for next year.

The City of Aurora will begin discussion on its long-awaited 2010 budget on Tuesday, November 24 at the Finance Committee.

>FINANCE COMMITTEE
November 24, 2009 at 1pm | agenda
City Hall, 44 E. Downer Place, 5th Floor

>PLANNING & DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE
November 24, 2009 at 3pm | agenda
Aldermen's Office | 60 E. Downer Place

>GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS COMMITTEE
Next scheduled meeting is December 8, 2009

>AURORA CITY COUNCIL
November 24, 2009 at 6pm | agenda | large bills list
City Hall, 44 E. Downer Place, 2nd Floor

75 comments:

Anonymous said...

This city needs to eliminate pensions and and lifetime retirement health care like the private sector has. the standard good deal out there now from large, large companies like IBM is:

A 401K with a .50% match on up to 6% of salary (basically 3.0%)

Access to the group insurance available at the time where the retiree pays 100% of the cost of the group policy.

This retire after 20 or 30 years and live off the taxpayer for decades after needs to stop and stop now.

Anonymous said...

The Mayor needs to get rid of his staff. He really doesn't need four assistants and three spokespersons. If the economy is that bad, and it certainly looks that way, get rid of the Mayor's Office of Special Events and the Arts Commission. We don't need parades and art; we need police protection.

The Mayor could also take the huge raises that Rosario DeLeon, Bill Wiet, Alex Alexandrou, Dan Ferrelli, Dan Barriero and Alayne Weingartz got last month back. We could probably pay two or three policemen for a year with their raises.

Anonymous said...

Interesting. The Beacon announces the layoffs and the Mayor sends out a memo that there won't be any layoffs. Somebody's lying.

Anonymous said...

the Mayor is raising ?

Anonymous said...

More BS from the politicl pros. I agree that this 20 or 30 year retirement pensions has to stop. It is what has been like cancer killing the taxpayer for years. DOnt forget the TEACHERS UNIONs and their sweet deals. How do you think that good ol ARCHIE from west high gets his 110,000 per year?

Blackberry Insurance said...

If you think about it, private pensions make alot of sense. Tax lower and let people invest their owwn money. Those that dont are scuppered. Those tat do might do well. If it goes into a registered pension investment it might be tax free. But it puts the onus of responsibility on the individual not thhe taxpayer to fund them in their latter years. This personal responsibility will make a huge difference to the ethics and ethos of the nationn because there can be no free riding on the taxpayer if they do not take care of themselves.

Anonymous said...

Wow !! Three full-time job elimanations. The Mayor is taking a tough stance with his financial responsibility program. How many jobs/services could have been if the City didn't give 2 million dollars to some guy to build an Irish Pub.

Anonymous said...

The mental and physical strain that is police work is why you EARN a pension at 20 years and max out at 30. People at large companies are off with their families on weekends and holidays. Think about that next time you see a Police car, Firetruck, or Ambulance on Thanksgiving, 4th of July, or Christmas/ ect.

Anonymous said...

I find it interesting that everyone complains about the benefits that a retired police officer receives.
Why didn't you people who are bitching take the police test? When I took the test in the early 70's there were only 25 of us who took the test. 8 of us were hired. We started out a $9,000.00 a year which at that time was low. Teachers made more than us.
Our reward was a good pension and health care for our years of service and for sacrifices we made for our families and the City of Aurora.
You had your chance to be a police officer, no one stopped you so quit complaining about how we milk the system and don't desreve it.
YOU JUST DIDN'T HAVE THE BALLS TO DO MY JOB.

Anonymous said...

Police Officers and Firefighters earn a more than generous wage at the expense of the average hard-working citizen. Those wages are MORE THAN ENOUGH. To say they are entitled to more is B.S. Why don't you guys try living in the real world? Where you don't have a local government job that is protected by a Union. This old line about: "Why don't you take the police test" is about as stale as a cabbage fart. I don't want to work for the APD. Family members who are cops don't want to work for the APD. There's a better way for citizens to protect themselves: It's called common sense, and the Second Amendment. Stop leeching off the common man, and take your sense of entitlement and arrogance elsewhere.

Anonymous said...

The mental and physical strain that is police work is why you EARN a pension at 20 years and max out at 30.

Right. That may have been true in the old days but most modern police, of which I know many have a very cushy lifestyle. No money worries, no worries of the future other than what business to start when they retire in their 50s with a gigantic pension and lifetime health benefits second to none.

Sorry but my cousin is a retired officer as are several of his friends and I get my info from them.

Of btw, you think only police and firemen work holidays? Almost every single IT department has people on call, unable to leave their home, having to go out on short notice, same with doctors and nurses. What about the workers at the restaurants many people eat at on the holidays? For many it is work or you are fired, of course they don't have a union, health care benefits and a pension to help them.

Time for ALL municipal employees to join the new millennium.

Anonymous said...

2:27 - no, I distinctly remember the barely functional retards form my graduating class who became officers, and sorry but I set my sights on something higher in terms of aspiration. Police work is either a calling, or it is simply a steady paycheck and benefits for guys who otherwise would be lucky to get a job washing dishes or digging a ditch.

Anonymous said...

The post at 2:27PM is a macho diatribe that is very disrespectful to the citizens of whatever city he supposedly serves as a police officer. We don't care about the size of your testicles. The person who wrote this is ungrateful and greedy. This person has no business being a public servant. I would strongly advise this person to seek another job.

Anonymous said...

2:27 Dumbass

Anonymous said...

i was going to become a police officer, but I thought it important to finish high school first! Once I finished I was over qualified fro the job.

Anonymous said...

Maybe not. Because I typed "fro" instead of "for", so maybe I could be a police officer after all.

Anonymous said...

Haw darz youse all be saying Police dont' be deserving of pension. Would you take night stick to a moolie - nos you be afraid. I service and protect you like it says from moolie and this is how you say to me? You do not be deserve Police. My knees are bad from chase moolie and spic and for what? So I can retire and drink a beer why I fish. Iz that so much to ask after all I do?

You all far to scarrzed to be Police. You see moolie you be scare, I just take night stick. That is the difference. All Police desert more than twice the pay and benefit. Without us you all be raped daughter by moolie and spic.

One more thing, I think many who writz here are just security guard who are jealous cause not Policeman.

Sign me Aurora finest

Anonymous said...

Rome is burning while mayor Nero is fiddling,

He needs to dump everyone who makes over $100,000.00. Thats practically his whole staff.

If he raises our taxes to pay for his wild spending, he should be impeached.

P.S. Maybe we can sell the POLICE PALACE.

beacon said...

AURORA -- With the national economy continuing to struggle, foreclosures have been on the rise as people find it more difficult to pay their monthly mortgage bills. It's an epidemic that has even affected Aurora city government's top attorney, Alayne Weingartz.

BAC Home Loans Servicing, formerly known as Countrywide Home Loans, has filed a complaint in Kane County Circuit Court, asking to foreclose on a West Side home owned by Weingartz and her husband. According to the complaint, the mortgage has not been paid on the home since March.

The total owed on the home is more than $325,000, plus interest and fees, according to court documents.

"Unfortunately, and like so many people in our area and across the country, my family has been affected by the harsh economic realities of this recession," Weingartz said in a written statement. "Due to various factors, my family experienced temporary financial difficulties which led to this situation.

"These factors have been rectified," she continued. "We are proceeding with an agreement and look forward to this situation being cleared in the near future."

Both Weingartz and Assistant Chief of Staff Carie Anne Ergo said the foreclosure will have no impact on Weingartz's role with the city.

As Aurora corporation counsel, Weingartz represents the city in court, offers legal advice and crafts ordinances for aldermen on city committees, and serves as the city's prosecutor in housing court, enforcing building and property code violations.

Anonymous said...

If Aurora's top legal rep has legal problems then she needs to step down. Since she makes more than the average citizen and has a steady job her reasons (unless medical), for not paying on a contract that she agreed to, are troubling.

Anonymous said...

I beleive any job I ever applied for authorized them to run a credit check on me. The purpose of this was to see how I handled my personal affairs and if I did it responsibly. That way they knew for the most part that I could be trusted handling their affairs and possibly finances. Well now we have an attorney for the city of Aurora proving she is incapable of handling her affairs in a timely manor. Just how she handles the city affairs surely now should be questioned along with her tenure with the city. Was she vetted or just hired because she was a friend of the WHIZZ?

Anonymous said...

Alayne says it was just a temporary situation that she wasn't able to pay her mortgage for nine months. Now she suddenly has over $20,000 to pay the mortgage and get the foreclosure dismissed. I would like to know where the money came from. Tommy's campaign fund? A Dick Hawks' loan?

Anonymous said...

How rude of the Beacon to print personal information on Alayne Weingartz.

Especially if the forclosure was dismissed....

I am going to personally talk to Andre. He needs this???? Very unprofessional.

Anonymous said...

It is not dimised, it was just filed in October. Alyane had more then enough time to handle this. But once again she chose to be typical Alayne and create a legal issue. How is she going through financial hard times? She has not lost her job, she still has her over $100,000.00 salary. Must be those furlough days.

How insulting it is to hear her compare her irresponsiblies to those who have lost their jobs.

I think Dick Hawks was behind this article.

Anonymous said...

What a bitch she is to cry about how tough it is.

Anonymous said...

So....it takes a lot of "balls" to be an Aurora Police Officer, and because of this, they deserve a huge pension at the the expense of Aurora taxpapers......BULLSHIT!!....(A) It takes a lot balls for citizens to live in Aurora with it's extremely high crime rate and it's ineffective police department.Many people are shot and killed in Aurora during the course of a year. How many cops here are shot and killed in a year ? (B) It does not take a lot of courage to show up at a job with a service revolver, a bullet-proof vest, and a vast array of other weapons at your side. You drive around all day with another well-armed partner in a state-of-the-art police car. With one call on the radio you will be assisted by a lot of police officers in mere minutes. (C) The people of APD are paid an extremely high salary for the services they provide. They have greatly benefited from a former Police Chief who happened to become Mayor. The Mayor who came in after him doesn't dare to stand up to the APD. History has shown that certain members of APD have grossly abused the Overtime system there. $70,000 a year in overtime is obscene. The police station they are getting is long overdue, however reports of it's final costs are disturbing. (D) The amount of money paid out in a single pension is so incredibly much that it is very close to the line of stealing from the public. It's absolutely obscene. Compare their pension to that of the average working Joe/Jose in Aurora..........In conclusion, the wages of the APD should be frozen for a few years and the cost of their pension should be cut by at least 50%. If they don't like it, then it's TOO F'N BAD. This City needs sensible financial management at this point. It doesn't need ass-kissing Managers who don't dare stand up to the Police Union and their rank and file.

Anonymous said...

Is it just APD? or all of the police departments? State Police, FEDs, Chicago, joliet, Elgin, Naperville etc. Is Aurora the only town that hands out these crazy benefits. If so, lets put an end to it!

Anonymous said...

Alayne Weingartz is a hypocrite. She mistreats everyone from housing court to the public to other attorneys. She doesn't ever give a darn about anyone else's "difficulties" so it's ridiculous she has the audacity to use that excuse, but even more strange is the fact she makes over $100,000 and has been gainfully employed the entire time of her loan. She hasn't paid since March 2009. She has no excuse unlike people who have real hardships.

She should resign or Weisner should fire her. How dare her treat others so badly when she gets paid by taxpayers a huge salary and chooses not to pay her mortgage.

Anonymous said...

If Weisner doesn't get rid of Alayne Scatterbrain, he's his own worst enemy. She's caused him more damage then any other city employee and cost taxpayers millions with her stupid legal decisions.

Anonymous said...

4:19

All of these other departments receive similar pay, pension benefits and other compensation similar to Aurora. Some a little worse, some a little better. The firemen also have similar pay package and patient benefits. I suspect the guy that keeps blasting APD got a parking ticket or something. Notice that his only focus is on APD. Why not all of the departments in the united States? How about those pesky military guys that get a pension after 20 years on our dime? I could go on and on. But we all know his answer: It's those no good overpaid Aurora cops.? Right?

Anonymous said...

You mean Acorn doesn't give out pensions???

Anonymous said...

6:43 Kiss my ass. Clairvoyant wanna-be.

Anonymous said...

Yep, ticket

Anonymous said...

Actually a couple of years ago the Union Negotiators that worked for the Aurora PD listed them on their website as the 3rd and 6th highest compensated police force in the country!

I was shocked, but after talking to several officers, let's face it, the pay is outrageous. The only reason they are pushing for more college is a thin attempt to equate the skills needed to do police work with the private sector. This is the same nonsense the Park District has done to mask the outrageous salary and benefits given to their employees. In case you do not know this game the FVPD switched to require all supervisors (except when Whitey Peters needed work) a 4 year degree in recreation which is the ultimate blow off degree that makes basket weaving seem complicated by comparison.

The APD is starting to do the same thing, by trying to mask the over compensation of officers by comparing it to other labor with college degrees. Even then they are way overpaid. The real requirements to do the job are very minimal.

Anonymous said...

Why is Carianne Ergo making comments on Alayne's behalf? Is this now a city debt? If it isn't, Alayne should be making her own statements and Ergo should shut up unless she will be making statements for any city employee who has an issue. Another use of city funds for Alayne's personal gain. This is conversion, a crime.

Anonymous said...

Did you give up that bonus when times were good for you? Have you asked what you could do to help out in this economy for the teachers who are supplying their own classrooms? Have you ridden with a cop? Did you give a dam about his lower pay 5 years ago? How about the fact the average cop lives 64 years? The pension isn't so great when you look at the lifespan. Now when times are lean you look around like vultures and decide cops pensions are greedy. Or teachers are overpaid. Both teachers and cops have bachelors degrees and often Masters. They paid for an education and have not made enough over the years directly to retire due to lower salaries and no bonus. There is no free health insurance after retirement at least not where my spouse is a cop. You people kill me. Many of the comments here are ignorant rants

Anonymous said...

Overpaid, arrogant, ungrateful, disreseptful to those who pay them, in-house protection for the bad boys, lack of respect from other neighboring police departments, overtime candy store, no suspensions for those who beat up women in their spare time, can't find Marilynn Bethell........APD, what a racket they got going on. Congratulations.

Anonymous said...

Both teachers and cops have bachelors degrees and often Masters.

Two simple acts, one teachers are statistically at the bottom of their class academically, two most have a Master's or Phd in education which is a total joke. These degrees are designed to simply try and justify salaries.

As for police with degrees, it is not the degree that matters, it is the skills needed to do the job. Guess what police work is not a high skill profession, or else the entire history of police work needs to be rewritten.

To this comment about health care, check out the private sector. Now days, at most companies if you leave before medicare kicks in you are going to be responsible for paying the entire premium associated with a group policy, not just the average of 34% that most people currently pay.

Anonymous said...

Alayne needs a raise. She all about the struggle that so many Americans are going through.

Maybe they should not have bought that Expedition or that big gas guzzeling van. She has enough money to have a big camper and a boat.

What a phoney. Pay your bills Alayne.

Anonymous said...

On pensions here is the thing - longevity. All municipal employees go out with relatively very, very high pensions, and these have to paid over a lifetime. When someone retires at high pensions you may have to pay the for 30-40 years! It is ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

Hide behind your anoyomouse. When I went on the Apd in 1967, I was making only $480.00 per month of which I paid into the pension fund an average of 7%-7 1/2% of my pay, and when I left 32 years later was paying 9 1/2% into the fund. Most of the Officers I had the good fortune to work with are now gone,(2 of the 4 I started with). Try taking an average of 8% of your pay when just starting out with a wife and babies. I worked rotating shifts, nights and weekends for years.

I worked with some of the greatest Men/Women, who gave back to the city and the citizens of Aurora at every chance they could.

For the wieners of the city and those who keep anoyomouse going talk with a retired officer about whet it was like when he/she started and what the did for the City and you will come away with a different insight into Police work

Thank you for letting an old timer rant and rave about the greatest job in the world, and the greatest City in Illinois.

Sgt. Ralph (retired).

Anonymous said...

Run spellcheck, Sgt.

Anonymous said...

Once again Sgt Ralph one valid for anonymous posters is the vindictiveness of the APD against citizens who report police abuses. It is truly disgusting the way the APD uses intimidating tactics to quell complaints against its officers.

And you are complaining it seems about 7- 7 1/2 percent? Private sector employees are having to put away 15% in their 401Ks and fund their Roth IRAs to have shot at paying for the escalating property taxes that are coming due in large part to the pension payouts predicted fro the State and Municipal pension plans.

This is a math exercise. You cannot have the range of benefits now touted into the future paid by property taxes and not expect a increase that does not greatly exceed not only the rate of inflation but the expected return of the markets.

What you do not seem to understand is this simple problem. What is the lump sum that a taxpayer has to set aside in order to pay their anticipated future tax bill given the knowns. That the increases will have to outpace inflation and outpace inflation plus the likely return of their portfolios. Now they have to add in what they are to live on sans taxes and set that aside. Remember they ill have no colas, their portfolios have to account for inflation. Now do you see the problem?

So instead of griping about people who are pointing out the problem how about lobbying for reform with your police buddies? No one would be grudge the standard plans in the private sector, the best of which and a 50% match on the first 6% the employee puts away. And for health care most employers now simply offer you the option to pay 100% of the cost of the group policy in retirement. Go with that and curb the over time abuse and the abuse of the APD toward honest citizens and you would not here the animosity.

Until then you are simply part of the problem.

Anonymous said...

Btw, I wrote the above and you seem like a good egg Sgt Ralph. But I think you fail to see the big picture. Benefits need to sustainable. At the current rate they simply are not. I understand your pension system is the best funded, but that does not take into consideration the long term future only the anticipated nominal payout which makes the Municipal pension fund seem sounder than it is.

Anonymous said...

These APD bashers keep paying dodge ball. Is it just the APD Officers that are overpaid idiots, or all of the officers. Is NYPD a good department? Elgin? Joliet? Geneva? State Police? I mean, they all receive similar benefits and pensions. Who is good and who is bad and why? I look forward to your thoughtful response.

Anonymous said...

3:45 - I''l step up to the plate. ADP officers are way over compensated for the work they do. The trouble is with the total compensation package. In Aurora the overtime abuse and the ability to retire at a young age and draw such a huge benefit package. Many would have far less a problem if the officers could earn their retirement and not draw it until age 67 or so and keep the lifetime payout lower. But having someone come in at 22 years of age and walk after 30 years to live with a COLA in retirement for possibly 40 years is ridiculous. And it is just not police officers.

And I do know NYPD are way over compensated. I have a friend who retired recently and has one sickeningly sweet deal.

Anonymous said...

Oh, so its all police officers. got it. Interesting opinion. How about teachers? college and high school?

Anonymous said...

Teachers too. They keep boosting their salaries to around six figures by retirement age, and get to collect at age 55. To add insult to injury, they only work about half of the year. Another government pension racket. This has to end! Not to mention all the sweet coaching and extracurricular programs that boost their pay.

Anonymous said...

Hmm, sounds like a lot of abuse out there. How about firemen?

Anonymous said...

Not much better I'm afraid. Overpaid for the work they do, un-checked overtime, and early retirement with outrageous benefits. The city union pension benefits will destroy this country. The firemen are some of the biggest whiners. Believe me, I know I have a fireman in the family and will have to listen to his whining through my thanksgiving meal.

Anonymous said...

Oh, so its all police officers. got it. Interesting opinion. How about teachers? college and high school?

Once again:

And it is just not police officers.

It relates to all municipal employees. Study after study now demonstrates that public sector employees earn more than their private sector counterparts.

Here is a clip from this April. I only copied part of it as part of a discussion process and therefore do not violate copyright provisions:



By Dennis Cauchon, USA TODAY
The pay gap between government workers and lower-compensated private employees is growing as public employees enjoy sizable benefit growth even in a distressed economy, federal figures show.

Public employees earned benefits worth an average of $13.38 an hour in December 2008, the latest available data, the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) says. Private-sector workers got $7.98 an hour.

Overall, total compensation for state and local workers was $39.25 an hour — $11.90 more than in private business. In 2007, the gap in wages and benefits was $11.31.


By the way analysis has shown there is not a 20 year teacher in IL that does not walk away with a pension > 1 Million dollars. Many are worth 2-4 million. You can price this by going into Vanguard and trying to buy an inflation protected annuity and see. But the Governmental one is still better because the payout is guaranteed. An insurance company can go under making your annuity worthless.

Here is aquote form Chris Lauzen:

Illinois state Sen. Chris Lauzen, a Republican, says government benefits are unsustainable and unfair to taxpayers who earn less than civil servants. "People will become angrier and angrier when they learn the difference between their pay and benefits and what we give to public employees," he says.

Anonymous said...

To those that live in the City of Aurora,(Yes I do), Please call your alderman after down loading a copy of the Illinois Pension laws and let them know what you do not like.

You might call the office of Senator Chris Lauzen, who I find is always there to listen and respond to your request. or call your representative.

I found that if you hide behind anoymouse because of some foolish fear of reprisal. The Officer,s are far too busy to come after you. Your complaint against them means more, than any ticket they could write.

You have in this City some of the finest Women/Men Officers, My daughter once said all you do is drive around , My response to her was, when it hits the fan the Officer knows what to do and does it. I.E. Become involved in a auto accident and your hurt and see the Officer that takes control and get's you to medical help.

Get to know a retired Officer or for that matter one who is on the job and ask question I'm sure that they feel the same way about a lot of things you think are wrong. It could also mean that they could change your mind about how things are done and why.

Sgt Ralph (retired)

Anonymous said...

The fact of the matter is the pension payouts for AFD and APD are way out of line with current reality. The taxpayers of Aurora are being ripped off. Municipal employees are entitled to a fair wage and fair benefits like a pension plan. They are NOT entitled to a pension payout that is ridiculous and amounts to a form of legalized racketeering.

Anonymous said...

"Once again Sgt Ralph one valid for anonymous posters is the vindictiveness of the APD against citizens who report police abuses. It is truly disgusting the way the APD uses intimidating tactics to quell complaints against its officers.".....................I can personally to this. They DO NOT LIKE it when you tell them about a fraternal brother who got way out of line. As far as I'm concerned there IS no accountability with the Aurora Police Department.

Anonymous said...

I'm not going to comment about the police we have in Aurora because there are some good and bad. It does seem that we have more coming around the East side and State, unmarked. But what I see here now more and more on the East side is street peddlers selling socks and tamales door to door. Also even though the property standard group has come around we still have single family homes renting out rooms and people drinking outside their homes on the weekends and throwing bottles on the sidewalks and breaking them. We have children walking to school on these streets is that what they want these children to see. The East side is getting better but even with the landlord laws they still have a long way to go.

Anonymous said...

The Aurora Police Dept. finally ended the "Operation Dare" program. This was a long-standing program that many in law enforcement felt was very ineffective and out-dated. More importantly, it was a significant source of the overtime for those who abused overtime at APD. It was a part of the candy store. It's really sad when a program is supposed to benefit the youth of Aurora but instead benefited well-compensated, and well-pensioned members of the Aurora Police Dept.

Anonymous said...

" 'People will become angrier and angrier when they learn the difference between their pay and benefits and what we give to public employees,' he says."

True enough. But perhaps the solution is for private sector employees to ask why they can't have better benefits, rather than try to strip benefits from those who fought to keep them?

Adjusting for hours worked, real wages for the middle class have been stagnant for 30 years while the pay of the top 1% is almost 10 times what it was. That's the real unsustainable problem.

Anonymous said...

Sgt Ralph:

found that if you hide behind anoymouse because of some foolish fear of reprisal. The Officer,s are far too busy to come after you. Your complaint against them means more, than any ticket they could write.

It is not a foolish fear of reprisal. It is very real and I went through it.

Having many friends who are non-Aurora police and Aurora police and a relative who retired from the APD force I stand by my comments.

As I said before you seem sincere. But maybe you are just blind to some of the ethics of other officers and how the brotherhood of the badge requires them to turn a blind eye to other officers belligerent behavior.

Anonymous said...

9:28 - what the private sector had and what the municipal, federal, and state employees have is unsustainable. What really took GM out, it was retirement obligations. You could have all the benefits you want if you raise the retirement age to 78 and 40 years of service.

Understand that in 1950 the life expectancy for a male born in 1950 was 64.5 today it is 78 years. Do you see the issue? The payout was suppose to be for a short duration. I.E. you worked you lived in retirement for a handful of years if you were lucky and then you died. No days we expect you to live to 78 is you are a male. That is a long, long time in retirement for many civil servants.

That is why corporate America threw in the towel. Historically medical care kept adding about three years of life for every 10 years. When scientist announced the probability of being able to regenerate organs in the late 90s actuaries promptly and properly told corporations that they had to move to defined contribution plans or faced bankruptcy by pension payout.

Once again the status quo is not sustainable.

Anonymous said...

I have zero sympathy for Alayne Weingartz, who is the most unprofessional and rude person I've met in my life.

Anonymous said...

What??? Not blaming Kifowit for this? Openline you are slipping.

Anonymous said...

11/23/09 10:16 PM

You're right--that's another problem that has to be taken into account. Along with birth rates reducing the number of workers per retired person.

Anonymous said...

Here are a couple points I can't believe haven't been made yet...

Alayne has obviously gone into forclosure so that she can benefit from President Obama's stimulus package, and get her interest rate and principal amount owed on her mortgage reduced!!

All of you talking about the overtime abuse of the APD/AFD need to understand that if the city just hired enough employees to do the job, the overtime would go away. They won't fully staff the officer/firefighter positions, and the overtime is the end result!

Wake up and smell the coffee people!! Blame the problem, not the side effect!

Anonymous said...

You want the problem blamed...how about for starters the unions as in IBEW, Teachers, State and municipal, ACORN, Hospitality workers, Teamsters, Auto workers etc etc. and above all blame the useless politicians in Wisconson who were the first in the country to authorize government unions. FACTS.

Anonymous said...

It would be plain stupid to state your name while criticizing the APD. A few of those guys are some serious goons.

Anonymous said...

To Municipal employees of Aurora: Let me explain to you the workplace in the real world. Companies reduce work forces, freeze wages, cut/elimante benefits. Real people in the real world have to deal with this. We don't bitch and moan when it happens. We pull yourselves by the bootstraps and WORK. Most of us don't have a Union to protect us or shakedown the company on our behalf. We, the citizens don't want hear any lame-ass excuses why things can't be cut or frozen. Excuses like the City will be unsafe if there are cuts. The City is already has a high crime-rate and alot of unsolved murders. The firefighters sure as hell don't need 29 people in upper management. The City will not burn if that staff was cut by 2/3. The taxpayers are paying for a local government that is some 18 million dollars in the hole. I'm sorry but many of you will have to face the bad news like the rest of us. You're not SO SPECIAL that you're exempt form cutbacks. That's just the way it is, folks.

Anonymous said...

Dude your preaching to the choir. I'm a teacher, and if you saw how little we do for the wage we are paid it would make you sick. I'm getting ready for my 4 day weekend but appreciate my benefits. Did I mention I'll be off for about 3 weeks at christmas? Oh, and I'll be driving to Alaska with my family over the summer. Thanks tax payers, keep the money coming, yee hawww. Oh, and no cuts in the teaching staff. Love it!!

Anonymous said...

11:29 I like your attitude. At least you appreciate the situation you are in. However you might want to be very concerned about the long term sustainability of your pension

For others you might wish to go to:

thechampion.org and give it a read.

The following might pique your interest:

"There are over 1,100 teachers who have pensions of over $111,000 a year and they can retire at age 55,"

Anyone want to guess how much that is worth? I just called Vanguard and asked the cost of an immediate annuity for a 55 year old male with an inflation adjustment, the number is:

$3,144,686.56.

These things are roughly proportional, so 55K a year would be in excess of a million and a half, more for a woman and actually more for a teacher (they statistically live longer).

Now understand this does not include the health care benefits!

Anonymous said...

The solution to the APD / AFD issue would be to make them all salary and then OT would GO Bye Bye!

But they union cowards will never go for that.

The other thing would be to require all city employees to live in city limits. WHile I am not a huge fan of that as it limits your pool of people you can draw from. At least they might have a clue about the tax ramifications of their actions.

The biggest issue for the city is the spenders in city hall and the council that lets it continue.

All I mean all of the council people really have no clue when it comes to spending and how to reduce it and the city budget. Just look at how they live!

We need real leadership and that becoming harder and harder to find these days at every level of public and private sector for that matter.

A little soul searching and repentance is what this nation needs!

Anonymous said...

So how many of you complaining will be at the city council meeting expressing your views?

Anonymous said...

11:29 a.m.

I'm also a teacher, and either you're lying or you're a terrible teacher. Between taking work home to grade, continuing education, dealing with student problems (and problem students), buying materials and dealing with idiot parents who think they know how do to your job better than you and that little Johnny shouldn't have failed the test even though he left half of it blank, well, it's not quite that easy.

Anonymous said...

Let me explain to you the workplace in the real world. Companies reduce work forces, freeze wages, cut/elimante benefits. Real people in the real world have to deal with this. We don't bitch and moan when it happens.

And that's why it keeps happening. Maybe if you unionized and actually fought back you wouldn't have these problems.

Anonymous said...

You know we have problems with pensions when a driver ed teacher can make over 100,000 a year and I bet we have some in this city making that.

Anonymous said...

And that's why it keeps happening. Maybe if you unionized and actually fought back you wouldn't have these problems.

Here are some real numbers for you:

Male retiring at 55 on 25k a year adjusted for inflation --> cost $570.074.50

These things are roughly proportional so:

50k = 1,140,148.30
100k = 2,280,296.30

For females:

25k = 626,063.91
50k = 1252.127.82
100k = 2,504,255.66

And all the above are without taking into account the health care burden!

Now look at the numbers (they are from Vanguard btw I asked them specifically for the numbers today).

Do you really think each and every employer can afford that? How much do you think your burger at McDonalds or your oil change or your heating and air bill would be with pension schemes like that?

The problem is simple, we cannot afford to have people living for decades in retirement on pensions, especially inflation adjusted ones!

When the system most defined contribution systems are modeled on was created the average make lived to 64 years of age, Today it 76 years of age, and more significantly medical care was much cheaper simply because people were dieing before they needed expensive life prolonging procedures and exams.

So your quip falls far short of a reality. Your prescription would end in an economy with high unemployment, low disposal income rates and human misery every where.

Btw, given the above do you know understand in part the Government's plan for solving the SS problem?

Anonymous said...

Hey all you knuckleheads that voted for hopey changy Flim Flam Man, when you are loosing jobs you are still in a recession not a recovery, like the HEAD READ would like you to believe. Dont drink his koolaid.